Mac is the best web browser.

No.

Good one

enjoy your inability to render simple CSS properly

You know, it's not really that it can't render websites properly it's just that Opera has
an inability to automatically fix simple CSS coding errors like FF/Chrome and
automatically.

The lack of useful features and no fully functional adblock really deters me away from using the browser and
any way or form.

Really now, my reply was deleted? Darn. I'd like to see that justified. Now I'm feeling
aggressive and will be more elaborate.

Well, in response to your claimed CSS problems in Opera: This is due to the fact Opera
doesn't support depreciated, obsolete, and poorly written CSS - oh no!

Maybe you guys visit a lot of really old, amateurishly coded sites, but Opera is just
conforming to the world wide web consortium's standards by helping phase out the buggy and
outdated elements of CSS1 (source) . Opera supports CSS 2.1 quite thoroughly, and has considerable support of the developing
CSS3.

Also, you mention is has problems with minor coding errors? I really don't know where you
guys are getting your information from, but here's a few examples of 'minor' coding errors
I've seen Opera handle correctly:

{ block ; }

which should be

{ display: block; }

and if you write undefined properties:

{ margin: 0 0 0 0; }

Opera will read them as pixel values.

{ margin: 0px 0px 0px 0px; }

Both these errors fail miserably in Safari and IE. It's also worth noting if your CSS gets
any worse than that you need to find something else to do. I've even seen it handle pseudo
classes better than Firefox too, on some occasions. So really, if you think Opera has a
substantial CSS problem, you're just blaming it for some websites failure to know what
they're doing.

Also, Alex, I'd put that down to a lack of experience with the browser. It has Opera
Dragonfly - A source manager and debugger that is a bit more elaborate than Firebug, a
pop-up blocker that works just as well as what I had in FireFox, and a full-fledged
content blocker that works quite as well as AdBlock Plus. I highly doubt you even looked
before you replied, because, well, you don't use Opera so it is obviously not the best.

Actually, the point I wanted to make with this post was, Opera has nearly full support of
HTML5. Firefox and Chrome are still full of holes, and IE and Safaria are still
stone-age-ish about it. I wanted to go write some of the new form stuff in the HTML5 man!
But then I realized it wasn't going to work for most of you because your browser needs a
few months to catch up.

P.S. Oh, and if you decide to press your points, or make new ones, at least offer some
alternative superior. So I can pick holes in it and feel even more superior.

P.P.S. Or you could make a joke, or be sarcastic, or turn it into a personal attack. You
guys are pretty good at discarding your intelligence after all. (see what I did there; a
personal attack)

If you fail to support the older versions of things, you're leaving a whole lot of people
behind. I understand your point in that it is good for newer, more up-to-date sites and
that it handles some errors correctly, but it's important to keep things as simple and
useful as possible.

Opera being able to handle some of those minor "errors" doesn't really matter, since web
designers shouldn't be making those "errors" anyway. It's usually a web designer's goal to
make their website accessible by everyone, so they're not going to purposefully leave some
things out, especially when they didn't learn to do it that way. It's cool that it can
render those things correctly, yeah, but there is a standard for CSS coding.

I'd hate to bring up Valve, but one of the main reasons their games are lacking in the
graphics department is so they can have the most people be able to play their games. Valve
is extremely successful because of this.

I'd mention Mozilla's Nightly build, but I don't know anything about it. I'm sure Alex has
a lot more to add.

The main problem I had with you saying Opera is best is that you said it was best.

P.S. From my experience, Opera restores your last browsing session automatically. I don't
want to get online only to get bombarded with 50 tabs of porn!

P.P.S. I know you can probably turn that off.

Not exactly new. A good example would be trying to code a website now that supports old
versions of IE; it's going to restrict and mess with what you can do and want to do, and
so it's now standard by common sense to not even care about IE 6 or before when making a
site. I seen somewhere, about 98.9% of people use updated browsers, so it's a safe bet.
Opera is just saying "okay, that is really pretty old, no need to support it anymore". And
if you want to access the dinosaur internet, you can always bump back to an old browser.

CSS 2.1 is much more simple and useful than CSS1.


quote: "Opera being able to handle some of those minor "errors" doesn't really matter, since web
designers shouldn't be making those "errors" anyway. It's usually a web designer's goal to
make their website accessible by everyone, so they're not going to purposefully leave some
things out, especially when they didn't learn to do it that way. It's cool that it can
render those things correctly, yeah, but there is a standard for CSS coding."

I entirely agree, the current standard is CSS 2.1.

I'm sure your Valve example relates on some note, but to be fair, it's not very hard to
just learn the new standard, or update your browser(whichever side of the fence you're on)
to be able to not miss out. Not quite like needing a new computer for high graphics
games.

P.S. Yes, you can turn that off easily.

Saying that every web developer should develop without errors is like saying that roads
should be designed so no cars would get in crashes. In a perfect world, this wouldn't be a
problem. When you're browsing the web such problems are quite prominent in Opera, and it's
not something you can just ignore. In the end, it comes down to end-user experience.

I'd also like to add that ABP for FF blocks via element, so it's leagues more useful than
the Opera content blocker.

Since you're boasting so much about your glorious HTML5 capabilities, why don't you look
at these benchmarks I just ran on the latest version of each browser?

oh man

IE8 scores a 32, but I thought I'd use the most recent releases of each browser.

quote: "When you're browsing the web such problems are quite prominent in Opera, and it's not
something you can just ignore."

Example? I browse the web every day in Opera, and I don't agree.

I don't use content blockers anyway, you're probably right.

As for the HTML5 tests, they don't really rate for practical use. If you look at the forms
section in Opera, and in FireFox, you'll see what I mean.

As you said, you'd be dumb to use something not supported. I meant practical in theory,
not in practice.

quote: "I mean, if forms were actually useful the most popular web browsers should have
implemented them by now, correct?"

Because popularity means the best right? Brb watching Justin Bieber on my iPhone.

I don't know, do you need to watch Justin Bieber and use an iPhone for the PMP to work
properly?

lrn2analogy

a post has been deleted

awesome

Thanks for the conversation. =)

Edit: It's not the first one Anthony, I really don't know what's going on. Considering
this is one of the most intelligent conversations that's happened here for a while..

In order to have a decent browser, it needs to support older coding and newer coding. If a
browser doesn't support the basics, it is useless.

I thought...then I came back...whatever. :P Confusing people you ahve here.