=============================================================
================== Dynasty Warriors 2/3/4 ===================
================= Shin Sangoku Musuo 1/2/3 ==================
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=============== Advanced Game Mechanics Guide ===============
========================= FAQ V4.0 ==========================
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A FAQ by ENAY (41342 words)
V1.0 August/11th/2003 - First Version
V2.0 August/18th/2003 - Added more info and sub categorised
longer sections, many new sections
have been added also, along with
extra info in existing sections.
This FAQ was big enough as it was,
but now it's twice the size. :)
V3.0 August/24th/2003 - Not much this time. Added some stuff
Fixed a few grammatical errors and
added more information to the
section with the invisible horse and
an extra section about clipping.
V4.0 Sep/14th/2004    - Fixed more grammatical errors and added
some more information concerning
Dynasty Warriors 4 Extreme Legends.
This document is Copyrighted 2004 ENAY.
Dynasty Warriors 2/3/Extreme/4 &
Shin Sangoku Musuo 1/2/3 are trademarks of
Koei (c)2000/2001/2002/2003/2004
http://enaysoft.co.uk/
enay@enaysoft.co.uk
The latest version of this FAQ can always be found at:-
http://enaysoft.co.uk/
===
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I found this to be quite weird at first but I certainly
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So if you would like to donate me some money then donate
to me in UK pounds using Paypal at:-
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I *REALLY* appreciate your support and it further inspires
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Thanks again :)
===
CONTENTS:-
1.0 INTRODUCTION
2.0 A.I.
2.1 ALLIES
2.2 ENEMIES
2.3 BODYGUARDS
2.4 PATHFINDING
2.5 BATTLE ORDER
2.6 ATTACK ZONE
2.7 STATIONARY
3.0 BATTLE CPU PROCESSING
3.1 REGIONS
3.1.1 STATES
3.2 Z ORDER
3.2.1 1 PLAYER MODE
3.2.2 2 PLAYER MODE
3.3 MORALE
3.3.1 EVENTS
3.3.2 KILLING ENEMY GENERALS
3.3.3 KILLING ENEMY TROOPS *** IMPORTANT ***
3.3.4 KILLS IN MULTIPLES OF 50
3.3.5 1000 KILLS
3.4 ON AND OFF RANGE PROCESSING
3.4.1 MORALE
3.4.2 OFF RANGEON RANGE
3.4.3 PROCESSING TRICKS
3.4.4 SPECIAL HORSE CHARACTERS
3.4.5 BEHIND THE SCENES PROCESSING
3.4.6 BOULDERS
3.5 PERSONAL TROOPS AND RESPAWN POINTS
3.6 THE LEGENDARY INVISIBLE HORSE AND INVISIBLE ELEPHANT
3.7 CLIPPING
4.0 USEFUL TACTICS
4.1 CONTROLLER
4.2 ITEMS
4.3 CHARACTERS AND CHARGING UP
4.4 INCREASE POWERUPS
4.5 INFINTE COMBO
4.6 BONUS POINTS
4.7 9999
4.8 ARCHERS
4.9 MAXIMUM MORALE AND SUB GENERALS
4.10 MOUNTING
4.11 REINFORCEMENTS
4.12 NEVER GIVE UP!
4.13 SURVIVING FOREVER ON XTREME MODE
5.0 MY VIEWS ON
5.1 DYNASTY WARRIORS 4
5.2 DYNASTY WARRIORS 4 EXTREME LEGENDS
6.0 IDEAS THAT I THINK SHOULD BE ADDED IN THE FUTURE
6.1 KINGDOM LEADERS CHOOSE SUB BOSSES
6.2 PRESS SELECT TO INSTRUCT GENERALS
6.3 R3 MENU
6.4 TAKE OUT AUTO AIM
6.5 A FEATURE TO DIABLE DUELS
6.6 MORE INFO
6.7 A BETTER SURVIVAL CHALLENGE
6.8 GENERAL BODYGUARD
6.9 SUB GENERAL SPEECH
6.10 4 PLAYER MODE USING TWO PS2 UNITS
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============================START============================
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1.0 INTRODUCTION
Welcome! Ever since the release of Dynasty Warriors 2 I have
been addicted to the sheer fighting excitement of this game.
The release of Dynasty Warriors 3 improved so much over the
original that it was a very wise purchase for me.
I've been a big fan of scrolling beat-em-ups for many years
but the Dynasty Warrior games definitely are the most
original games to date. Then of course came the sequels.
Although I've felt the series has slumped a little since
Dynasty Warriors 4.
Being a games programmer myself, I find the AI (Artificial
Intelligence) in these games fascinating. To some extent you
really do feel like you're in a massive war. And for me this
is what makes the game so fun. Each battle is rarely the same
twice. And the 2 player option is just fantastic.
I'd highly recommend anyone to buy any of these games.
The aim of this FAQ is to explain how the game mechanics work
and how to exploit them to your advantage.
All examples used are on the assumption that the game is played
on hard. I like a challenge and as such have never played it on
any other setting. So in which case some of my techniques might
be a tad overkill for the Normal or Easy settings.
Also, if you're the sort of player who completes every single
level by manually going around and killing all the bosses
yourself you may find this FAQ interesting reading as there
are other fun ways you can play the game and get your armies
more involved.
If you're reading this to find all the special weapons
or cheats etc then you're looking in the wrong place. There are
many other FAQs dedicated to those. This is for people who are
really into the game and wish to know more, and ways in how to
enjoy the game just that little bit extra. There are also some
tips at the end of the FAQ which really help me to always win.
Suffice to say I've played these games a lot, in excess probably
of 1000 hours, I have a pretty good idea how everything works.
I shall start off simple but get progressively more complex in
my descriptions.
To get the most out of this FAQ I recommend you to start from
the top and read through from start to finish. This is because
I introduce concepts at various points that are later expanded
upon later in the guide, of course you're free to do as you
please but you may understand better if go through the FAQ in
the order I have written it.
Remember that in my guide I have made up some terminology to
describe some factors or features that the game involves,
these words are exclusive to this FAQ. I know what I'm talking
about but I needed to make up some words that you would find
easier to understand, for you to take on board. So basically,
a lot of slang words are used, so I can make more sense
quickly when describing things in detail without having to
constantly explain the same thing over and over again.
Also, in this guide bosses and generals are the same things.
I will often say enemy general and then say boss halfway
through a sentence, I apologise for this but they are the
same thing in reality. I just can't help saying one or the
other at seemingly random intervals. Sorry.
Don't worry if you don't understand everything in this guide.
You may not, but I hope some people find this guide helpful.
For most, it'll be an amusing and interesting read after
playing the game.
And I apologise in advance if I haven't made myself clear.
I've only briefly proof read this FAQ becuase it is so long
so I am sorry for any spelling errors or grammatical faults.
If you find an error and it really bugs you then tell me
and in the future I will fix it.
Enjoy! :)
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2.0 A.I.
A.I. (Artificial Intelligence) plays a big part in this game.
There is a lot of it going on and without it, there wouldn't
be much game. I will be explaining each type.
In general, enemies move around in sets of five. Four of which
follow a leader, usually a rank above the rest.
For generals this tends to differ but generally armies move
around in small clusters of people.
_____________________________________________________________
2.1 ALLIES
The allies are your friends, they help you in this war.
You cannot hit your allies and nor can they hit you.
They will move around the map according to which enemy
generals are alive and whether certain events have
happened. They will also hang around with which general they
are assigned to. See '2.5 BATTLE ORDER' for more details.
In many cases helping your allies, especially the generals
will be the key to completing almost every mission.
Without any allies to your aid, it will be very difficult to
defeat everyone by yourself. Unless you're really powered
up.
_____________________________________________________________
2.2 ENEMIES
Enemies are programmed similar to Allies except you will rarely
see them stood around waiting for battle because once approached
they will engage you in combat. Except on Dynasty Warriors 4
where you need to get fairly close. Regular enemies will generally
engage with the first person they meet or by the last person
who hit them. Enemy generals have a special bias towards you,
each time they finish a combo a check is made to see whether you
are in close range. If this is true they will give chase and come
after you. Keep an eye out on them on the mini map. This is
less true on Dynasty Warriors 2 where generals can sometimes
be fighting right next to you fighting someone else.
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2.3 BODYGUARDS
As everyone should know bodyguards fight alongside you.
If there are no enemies on screen they will just stand idle.
When enemies are on screen they will attack or defend depending
on the orders you give them. Personally I think defend is
pointless. What good are they if all they do is just stand
there not attacking? The answer is simple, they're worthless.
Better in my opinion to fight back and have no one to defend
against. The bodyguards will fight within a certain range, if
you move too far away from them then they will abandon the fights
they were having and then follow you.
You can see this is action if you face them, defend and then
walk backwards.
The bodyguards of enemy generals also do this, as can often
be seen when you are fighting one of them, then they'll
just suddenly run off. When they do this they are not programmed
to retaliate but just run straight towards their general.
If you can prevent them from returning to their master then
you're pretty much guaranteed a safe. Enemy bodyguards gave
you food in Dynasty Warriors 2 but sadly do not in the other
versions of the game. In Dynasty Warriors 4 you can press select
to give your body guards orders, the most useful of which
was to make them stand where they were. On any version before
Dynasty Warriors 4, if bodyguards died, they didn't rank up.
Except with the exception of Dynasty Warriors 2.
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2.4 PATHFINDING
All the characters in the game move through pretty simple path
finding. It's largely unchanged in all the versions.
Because each battle is pre-determined and all levels mapped out
before hand I very much doubt there are any complex heuristic
or A* path finding algorithms used in the game. That is in simple
terms, processes which the PS2 will use to calculate the
nearest path towards another unit whilst avoiding the scenery.
Especially since they often get stuck if you follow their every
move from one place to another.
When enemies follow you or are moving to another location they
move towards a particular location in a straight zig zagged
fashion. This is rather clumsy, often stopping and starting,
and even moving backwards and forwards in the same area before
moving onwards. This is because if they get side-tracked into a
fight they need to get back to a previous way point before they
can carry on moving, even if it means going back through old
ground. If you look at the direction they are moving
they will almost always move in diagonals. As in NW NE SW SE.
I believe this is so they don't get stuck on scenery like fences
or other straight obstacles.
However, when generals are not with you they move to their
destinations perfectly. This is due to the off range processing,
of which I will describe later. It is therefore faked off
screen. For this reason generals move towards their locations
quicker and more efficiently when you are not hanging
alongside them. There are some levels like the battle of Chi
Bi on the 3rd and Extreme where generals can get stuck.
I've had Sun Jian get stuck on two boats and repeatedly move
between the two for eternity, leaving myself to do the
rest of the level unaided. Even when I'm moved away from him
he still wouldn't budge. I've even had Xiahou Yuan stood in the
ocean instead of on a boat. Definitely a bug.
When running through enemy territory all enemies will execute
the age old 'run directly to your position tactics'.
Similar to how bullets approach your ship on shooting games.
A calculation is made to find the shortest distance between
you and the enemy and this is the route they will take.
They will never try to cut you off or guess where you about
to move so the trick is move in a slightly curved and also
zig zag style fashion between enemies.
This way you can avoid getting into contact with them at all
when running through enemy territory.
The enemies rarely crowd you on Dynasty Warriors 4 so running
through enemy territory is much easier. I will explain more
about why this is true later on.
With archers it is recommended to jump in a zig zag fashion,
even when approaching them. This way they will never be able
to get a lock on you.
Watching the demonstration will give you an idea of how
obscure the path finding can sometimes be. You should also
note how strange it is that the computers are also able to
perform the pointless 'circling around' technique during
the demo. You'll have seen many times enemies do this in
battle but strange how it is impossible for you to perform,
yet the demo makes you think it is a legal move. I hope that
last bit makes sense.
_____________________________________________________________
2.5 BATTLE ORDER
Each battle consists of various units set out in strategically
set locations as defined in the battle layout of each level.
Generally speaking the order of this each unit is set is the
same and only varies depending on which side you're on.
For instance at the battle of He Fei castle on the 3rd game,
if you choose Wu you start on the outside ready for the
attack but if you choose Wei then Wu is already in the castle.
This I believe only applies to Hard, but I could be wrong.
You can often get some rather odd layouts on screen when
generals are programmed to chase other generals and one has
moved out of position. Especially if you are playing the stage
leader. The best example is that on many levels, your main
leader will stay in the same position until all the army
in the other team except for the leader has been killed.
The battle order in which the characters move is always the
same, however what makes the battles often seem different is
the order in which generals die. If two armies are in battle and
one dies then the next army moves on. However is there are
a lot of troops left in a particular army on the way to its
location, the troops will queue up and wait their turn when they
are needed. This is most apparent when you have killed everyone
except the leading general of the level. A set number of allies
will attack and any that die will be replaced.
I swear sometimes generals on your team get stuck when they
should be advancing forward. Thus leaving you to finish the
level all by yourself. Very annoying.
If no generals die then no armies with move anywhere, unless
due to a cut scene that triggers an event.
The generals follow a pre-determined route, regardless of what
happens, they do not move to the nearest army. Only a set route.
Unless they are programmed to do so, which is often rather
stupid as there are many times when you could be losing and
reinforcements appear in the enemy camp and are already on lower
morale and thus die very quickly, it's a pity they don't retreat.
This is confirmed when you are the leader of level, if you
let all your armies die but move yourself out of your starting
position, the enemies will move to where you started and
just wait and not attempt to find you. However they will give
chase if there is nowhere left for them to go once they arrive.
Sub generals are a little more complex. They do seem to move
towards the nearest enemy. They often split up from the main
general and be miles away at the other end of the map. This is
most obvious on the Yellow Turban Rebellion and the Hu Lao Gate.
Cao Cao and Liu Bei are usually still at the top of the map
whilst their sub generals Xiahou Dun, Cao Ren, Guan Yu and
Zhang Fei are miles ahead, Xiahou Dun is often the first general
to reach Dong Zhuo which to me is surprising since the route he
takes is the longest in the level. I am of course taking about
the 3rd and Extreme games. There are far less directions to take
on the Hu Lao gate of Dynasty Warriors 4.
It is often difficult to see where sub generals are on the map
because they have no symbols. Finding enemy sub generals is
basically just a case of looking anywhere nearby.
Unless of course you happen to know which path this general
should take, otherwise the only clue is to look for places
where there are few blue or red dots on the map.
This is not so on Dynasty Warriors 4 as you can check this on
the map when you pause the game.
On the Hu Lao gate Lu Bu moves around a lot and at times seems
like he has no movement order at all. Therefore it is
recommended to keep away from him if you're a weak character.
Because he will give chase for a lot longer than any other
general and he may even come looking for you. I would class
Lu Bu as a special character as even morale affects him
differently too.
_____________________________________________________________
2.6 ATTACK ZONE
Similar to bodyguards, generals will fight in a specified zone.
However, for generals this area is much larger. And you won't
notice that until they give chase when you are running away.
They will only chase for a certain distance before eventually
turning back and heading back towards the centre of their zone.
With the possible exception of Lu Bu of course, which I
mentioned earlier.
The most ridiculous factor of the attack zone is that they
only follow you when you get within a certain distance.
A distance that is shorter than the possible firing zone.
Put simply, you can arrow them from long range without them
coming towards you to retaliate, an AI problem from the 2nd
and 3rd games which appears to have been fixed on the 4th.
Also a general that is knocked off a horse will constantly keep
trying to run towards where his horse stands and just ignore
the fact that you are firing at him. Making the AI look even
more stupid. Again, this appears to have been fixed in
Dynasty Warriors 4.
With enough arrows it is possible to kill entire generals in
this way but in my opinion, this a good way to exploit the
AI to your gain. It may seem like cheating, but it's not
actually a guaranteed technique. For instance, if the
general is already in battle with another army then the general
will be moving around as normal instead of being a sitting
target. And at other times there can be other archers
shooting back at you preventing you from sniping successfully.
The bodyguard technique can also be applied to generals.
The technique as in repeatedly hitting them when out of their
legal fighting zone.
Get a general to give chase, walk backwards whilst guarding
and watch them follow you. When he/she starts to run back you
know you've found where their attack zone ends.
Quickly move back into the zone and when they give chase again
unleash a stun arrow. Now that they're dazed run behind them
and combo them out of their zone. Now every time they get up
their first priority will be to return to their zone without
even attempting to fight back. You will now be able to fight
them without fighting back or even using their Musuo when
almost dead. It will be only the bodyguards now that will be
of any trouble now.
Gate Captains also have an attack zone. And they too can be
arrowed to death from a distance using the arrow technique.
The attack zone of generals on Dynasty Warriors 4 is very
large and for the main troops it is much smaller.
So you rarely get crowded as you do on the previous versions.
One boundary I do find a tad unfair is that of the gates.
It seems everyone in the entire universe can go there
but you. Horses, elephants, troops. Even your body
guards! Put your hand up if you've ever knocked a defence
up outside of the gate captains area? And how annoying
it is too, you can see it, but you can't touch it.
_____________________________________________________________
2.7 STATIONARY
Any armies that are queuing up for battle or are standing idle
will not be moved. It is possible to nudge people by walking
into them but they will move back towards to their standing
point if nudged too far. And of course this only happens when
you are stood next to allies.
_____________________________________________________________
2.8 COMBAT LOGIC
Surprisingly, combat logic is very simple, and is only
slightly varied between each version.
For regular enemies they will circle round (a strange yet
unexecutable technique) the enemy that they've targeted and
occasionally attack. Often though they will not attack for ages
and it looks more like they're dancing than fighting.
Regular enemies will only ever attack you if you hit them, that
is turn their attention towards you if they're already fighting
someone else.
If you're fighting alone then every enemy that comes onscreen
will instantly target you. Not good when archers come onto the
scene. If this happens and allies arrive on the scene run
away and then when all enemies have disappeared run back.
Now all the archers will have set themselves to the allies that
just arrived. Allowing you to take out all the archers whilst
they're not looking, except on Dynasty Warriors 4 where they
actually turn to face you, otherwise you can pick them off
one by one. It's best to stand with your army when there are
archers about so there is less chance of being hit by an
arrow.
Enemy generals will chase after you and then when in range will
attack. The attack they perform will be random. But as long as
you just stand there guarding and watch. You can instantly
counter attack with an attack of your own once they have
finished. This simple defend and then attack back will work
against everyone. Whilst they're falling run behind them if you
can, then attack as soon as they get up and they will be unable
to defend.
When a general knocks you down they will either charge up and
use a power up or give chase. For this reason try not to let
you knock them down.
Or if they do, repeatedly press the L1 Button, attack button and
direction they are in so you can quickly leap up and knock them
off their feet before they life up.
On Dynasty Warriors 2 you should aim to never knock down a
general as they never use their powerups unless you do, and they
don't charge, they instantly use an item, no way of stopping them.
Not possible however when you are fighting with your own army, as
they will often knock the bos to the floor.
And never use your Musuo on a general on Dynasty Warriors 2 either,
especially when you are on low health, unless you're juggling them.
Because it's impossible to get into a Musuo deadlock, meaning that
if they choose to do their Musuo into yours, you will take all
the hits.
The circling around technique is a weak point for all enemies.
That move where they stand move clockwise around you, the move
you cannot do yourself.
Whilst they are doing this they are guaranteed to be not blocking,
unless you are playing Dynasty Warriors 2 that is, in which they
are likely to be already blocking.
When generals knock you down and give chase they always do this,
when they catch up and find you on the floor, on Dynasty Warriors 4
they often do this when someone else has started hitting you.
Simply wait on the floor until they catch up and then when they
start circling around you hammer attack and you'll get up quickly
and hit them. This technique is a guaranteed free hit every time.
This is especially useful on the Dynasty Warriors 4 duels.
Another point is that generals for some unknown reason never
use their jumping attack unless you're playing Dynasty
Warriors 4. Neither do bodyguards that have bow or crossbow as
their weapon, as they of course don't have one.
=============================================================
3.0 BATTLE CPU PROCESSING
This section explains exactly how the battles are processed.
It is more complex and less obvious than the AI, I will try
and be as clear as possible but you might not understand
everything. Not to worry, as long as you find something in
this FAQ informative or useful. There are also some slight
difference in Dynasty Warriors 4, but I will explain those.
_____________________________________________________________
3.1 REGIONS
Not be confused with the zones each enemy has to fight within
before they must go back to their local area. But each player
(as in player 1 and 2) that has a region, a circular region
that you can see this region by hitting R2 and changing the
large map to mini map. I will be referring to this often
later on in and out of range. As of course, any enemy that
isn't shown on your map, is out of range of your map.
_____________________________________________________________
3.1.1 STATES
The in range region is what you can see on the mini map.
To recap:- The green arrow is you, blue dots are troop allies,
red dots are enemy allies, light blue dots are army general
allies, the other player and the other players bodyguards.
And finally red dots are enemy generals.
The other colours define the landscape but this is not
important to us. There are a set number of people that can be
processed on the mini map in range. I'd estimate about 80ish
max. With about 40 to 50 in range for fighting, except on
Dynasty Warriors 4 where enemies don't bunch together as much.
The in range region is also split into two areas.
What you can see and what you can't see. Basically
Or as I will be referring to these as :- On and Off screen.
On screen is obvious, anything you can see fighting. Off screen
is  basically any units that are not on screen but this also
means any units that are not in range either, as in any units
that are not shown in the mini map window.
Each level starts with thousands of people, because you'll
only be seeing a select few at a time I'd guess that 99.9%
of the level is off screen. Remember the difference between
the off screen, on screen and in range as I will be
referring to these a lot more from now on.
So to recap, there are 4 states any unit can be in.
Off screen, on screen, in range and out of range.
For example:-
- A person that is outside your mini map is out of range.
- A person that is inside your mini map is in range.
- A person that is in range that you can also see on
your main window is on screen.
- A person that is in range that you can't see on your
main window is on screen. This can be either someone that
is behind or to the side of the you. Or someone that
cannot be drawn to the screen even though they are close
enough for you to see them. (See the next section)
_____________________________________________________________
3.2 Z ORDER
This is where I start getting more technical. I hope
the previous section makes sense to you.
Ok, everyone should know from Maths that X defines left
and right and Y is up and down.
The Z Axis is depth, you couldn't define the Z axis on a piece
of paper but you can explain it with your hands.
Imagine this scenario:-
Think of being in a queue at the bus stop and you're at the
very back. You can count 20 people in front of you and the 20th
person is about to board the bus.
Now lets imagine that each person is one metre away in length.
If where you are stood is 0 metres in the Z direction then the
20th person is 20 metres away in the Z direction.
Also image that this static image we have in our head is flat.
So that Y direction is up and down and the X direction is left
and right. Still follow me?
Anyway, in Dynasty Warriors a special Z ordering technique is
used as it is simply impossible to draw all the enemies on
screen at once, but it is does in a way that you're meant to
not notice. (as much)
Not lets go back to our bus scenario and imagine it as a game.
A very boring game "Bus Queue Simulator" on the PS2.
It just happens to have a map just like the one on Dynasty
Warriors, so you can see all 10 people on the mini map.
But this bus simulator game only has the processor power to
display 10 people on screen. (including yourself)
So the game has to think how to get around this, the game
programmers could choose any technique for choosing which 10
people to draw. So if we adopt the Dynasty Warriors
technique we'd draw the 10 nearest people, this is what
Dynasty Warriors will do, standing from nearest person and
gradually moving outwards.
So the 10 people nearest the bus are not seen. This would be
very crude of course because we can clearly see on the map that
there are 20 people in front, not 10.
Still following me?
Now lets imagine you move 10 places up the queue. Lets say you
happen to get there first before those 10 people even arrived
at the bus stop. Now our 10 person problem doesn't seem as bad,
or even exist at all, we can see all 10 people in front us.
The 10 behind need not to be drawn, and if you were to turn
round, the other 10 would be drawn and the other 10 would not.
Get the idea, you can only ever see 10 people at once.
This would be ideal only in this example. We could however
cheat and pretend this make believe game could only ever have
a maximum of 10 people at once, then we could stand anywhere
and always see 10 people. But this is also bad. For example
imagine if Dynasty Warriors had a maximum of 10? It'd be
a pretty sparse war now wouldn't it?
This is as simple as I can possibly put it and of course only
happens with the people, this is not the same way the scenery
for example is drawn. And there are also other factors to take
into consideration, whether or not the characters all look
the same for example. And I was only explaining people in a
straight line and not in 360 degrees of movement. I won't bore
you with the multiple other reasons, just make sure you
understand this Z ordering issue, as it plays a very important
role in Dynasty Warriors. The main thing is, there is meant
to be so much going on at once you aren't meant to notice this
drawing flaw.
So to summarise, not everything can be drawn to the screen
at once because the game would slow down far too much.
The game can't cope with everything at once is there is
far too much going on. Therefore many things are faked
or simulated.
"Why tell me all that?" I hear you cry. Well, tactical wise
it plays an important role in how the game is played,
especially during 2 player mode. And that's not all to the Z
ordering in this game. Read on and all will be explained.
Also remember the 4 states of player mentioned in the earlier
section.
_____________________________________________________________
3.2.1 1 PLAYER MODE
Ok. So I'm hoping you understand why this Z order is used,
it determines depth of the people in view and who is to be
drawn on screen.
This is only a guess but I'd say that Dynasty Warriors is able
to render about 30 enemies on screen at once before it runs
out of time. It even says so on the back of the box on
Dynasty Warriors 2 I believe.
You've probably noticed that when there are few enemies on
screen you can see many from a distance but when many are close
you can't appear to see those people you saw stood in the
background anymore.
This is because when more than 30 are on screen at once only
the 30 characters that are closest to the screen will be drawn.
Dynasty Warriors runs at a cool and smooth 60 frames per second.
So you see 60 pictures a second, giving the game that smooth
animated feeling. Or 50 depending on your region in the world.
That's what 60 frames per second means incase you didn't know.
The PS2 has some seriously good hardware. If you imagine that
the last scrolling beat-em-up I can remember of this type
"Zombie Revenge" made a few years was able to draw about 5
to 7 zombies on screen at once. Dynasty Warriors has 30, and
has better graphics. You have to be really impressed with
how this game copes with so many.
But it's also about detail too, this is why you can only
have 30 people on screen, but can have thousands of small
sprites say in an explosion, because the sprites are not
complicated and small, but the people are. There have been
sacrifices made though, just take a look at the general
scenery, it's pretty simple. But the game is all about
fighting, not sight seeing. It's much nicer in general
however in Dynasty Warriors 4.
Anyway, it remains a fact. Using Z ordering all the
characters on screen are assessed. The nearest 30 are chosen
and then drawn from the character that is the furthest away
from the screen up till the closest character.
One thing that happens that you probably don't notice is that
units only battle in about 30. If you're fighting alone you will
fight about 30. But say 10 allies appear. Only 20 enemies will
attack. This is to ensure disappearing enemies are less common.
There are times however when all 30 are so close together
that you can only see a doughnut of enemies circling you.
Or in other extreme circumstances where there are so many
bosses attacking you and they bring all their bodyguards with
them. Usually 8 or so each. This number seems to vary, it can
sometimes be 40 or 50. I think it depends on the level and
game in question.
You remember earlier, I explained there were two types of
in range processing?
Enemies on your mini map you could see and others on your
mini map that you couldn't?
Well, just as you can only see 30 at a time. You can only hit
that 30. Collision detection (the ability to hit your foe)
is only true against enemies that you can see.
You can't collide (hit) anything you can't see. Not a problem
really until you use characters that have a fireball attack.
Or characters like Sima Yi and Zhuge Liang that have
multiple projectile in many different attacks.
If you are attacking into the screen, you will only hit what
you see. So any projectiles flying into the screen will only hit
the people standing near the screen. So a Musuo with the Sima Yi
and Zhuge Liang into the screen is useless.
Make sure you face your enemies first and that they are in front
of you and not behind the screen.
And don't Musuo next to a cliff or other object. Otherwise the
360 spin when doing your flaming Musuo will not fully turn
and you'll find yourself not facing where you started.
Unless the other play can seen the projectiles on their screen
any projectiles fired into your own screen will go no further
than that.
Other objects like food, powerups, items, horses and elephants
also use a similar Z order, but as such these are always
drawn and not selectively rendered and disappeared like the
soldiers are. The simple way to limit too many horses and
elephants coming on screen is to just not let a general on
the screen to happens to have a horse have one when they
arrive in range, it's that simple. Although it seems to be
slightly different with horses in certain occasions.
See section 3.5.4 for more about the horse phenominen.
On Dynasty Warriors 2 the food and powerups were actually
included in the same Z order loop along with the soldiers.
This was incredibly annoying as you could only see food that
was near you, and not at any distance. This meant that if you
were really packed together tight, you wouldn't see any
food glowing in the distance. Luckily this was fixed after
Dynasty Warriors 2, the programmers at Koei probably didn't
realise anyone would notice subtle changes like that.
This I believe is why they also made the powerups glow and let
off steam, just so you can see where they are more easily.
They didn't glow on Dynasty Warriors 2 much, if at all. And
finding that attack up in a huge crowd of enemies was a
difficult task in itself.
_____________________________________________________________
3.2.2 2 PLAYER MODE
The two player mode although revolutionary in my opinion,
sadly has many faults with it. Despite them though, I'm
very thankful this mode was implemented at all. One of the
games best features in my opinion. You soon live with it.
Firstly I will explain the 2 player mode on Dynasty
Warriors 3, Extreme Legends and Dynasty Warriors 4 are
slightly different. In the case of Dynasty Warriors 4 you
can almost ignore some of the problems I am about to explain.
Extreme Legends is almost the same as Dynasty Warriors 3 but
with a few tweaks to improve things, not a gaming engine
rewrite.
I will now explain the problems of the 2 player mode and
why they happen and how to get around them the best way you can.
You remember before I mentioned that in 1 player mode there are
roughly 30 characters rendered to the screen and you'll
only ever be battling around 30 at once in range?
Well in 2 player mode it is different.
The rendering system is split between the two screens but the
battle processing stays the same.
So basically, each player has 15-20 people rendered on screen
at once but still battling 30 people in range. Sometimes less
people depending on the level in question.
The graphics rendering is split in half.
I'm sure they've made some speed critical hacks in their
somewhere. Such as rendering a few more people on one screen
one when one player has no one on their screen at all.
"Why not put a limit of 15 people in range and 15 on screen
then?" you may ask. Well if they'd have done that the flow
of the game would be very different from the one player mode.
You'd basically be having half a fight and the game would
be much easier. Bus as you'll probably see, how can 30
units be in range but only display 15?
This is of course where the problems start. I explain a bigger
problem with this later in this FAQ.
Hopefully you've understood the Z order system I've explained
so far. I'd actually simplified it for the one player mode
to make it more understandable for you to read by omitting a lot
of technical information.
I'm now about to add some more factors into the equation,
what I'm about to explain applies to one player mode as well,
but it's unlikely you'll notice the difference though.
Which is why I'm not mentioned it till now and as not to
overload you with too much information at once in one section.
To cope with this split the Z order uses a selective
mode of display based on character type.
When there are more than 15 people on screen (30 for one
player) not only are the people calculated in order of distance
from screen but also in type. The order of priority is below.
1. Other player (2 player only)
2. Enemy troops
3. Enemy generals
4. Gate Captains
5. Allied troops
6. Own Bodyguards
7. Other players bodyguards
8. Allied generals
9. Allied Gate Captain
Lets imagine a snapshot in time. As if the game were paused.
How would an example scenario look on the screen of player 1?
In this example scenario I will tell you how it's done.
Remember this is a purely emulated hardware rendering guess.
I haven't reverse engineered the program.
Here are the units being processed in range that will need
to be displayed on screen in our example:-
Guan Yu (Player 1)
Zhang Fei (Player 2)
Cao Cao
Cao Ren
Cao Hong
14 enemy troops
7 allied troops
Pang Tong
4 bodyguards belonging to Guan Yu (Player 1)
Total 30 people to render.
In a one player game (excluding Player 2) there would be 29.
No player 2 and since there are a max of 30 people to show
all sprites would be drawn to the screen. Simple.
But in a two player game, here is roughly what would happen.
Lets say 20 will be shown on screen.
Firstly the rendering system looks down the list. (Shown above)
Starts from the top of the priority list. Player 2 is present.
Player 2 is added to the list to be rendered. 18 left.
You might probable think that 19 should be left. But Player 1
is always rendered to the screen, so Player 1 takes a slot too.
Secondly enemy troops are rendered. It is the second type
in the list. There are 14 in total and as there are 18
available rendering slots left all 14 are added and ordered
against Zhang Fei who is already in the list.
Zhang Fei is in the middle of the enemy troops so he is
ordered accordingly to fit in the centre. There are now
4 possible units left to render. Next is enemy generals.
There are 3 and so all 3 are added to the list and
ordered accordingly. Next is Gate Captains, none in sight.
So we skip gate Captains. Next is allied troops. There are
7, but too many to add to the list, so the nearest one to
the screen is chosen. Then we have to stop, there can be no
more rendered.
For player1 the rendering order for this frame looks
like this:- (Remembering that 20 if furthest away)
1  Enemy troop
2  Enemy troop
3  Enemy troop
4  Zhang Fei
5  Enemy troop
6  Enemy troop
7  Enemy troop
8  Cao Ren
9  Enemy troop
10 Enemy troop
11 Enemy troop
12 Enemy troop
13 Allied Troop
14 Cao Hong
15 Enemy troop
16 Cao Cao
17 Enemy troop
18 Guan Yu
19 Enemy troop
20 Enemy troop
Then Player 2's is done, I won't list Player 2 though as
for the example in question it's not needed. This makes a
total of 40. Both are drawn to the screen, we can then view it.
Since this example is imaginary we'll have to imagine what
it would be look.
So a description of what the screen would look like for
Player 1:-
Guan Yu is fighting Cao Cao surrounded by some enemy
troops. Two are behind Guan Yu but the rest in front.
In the distance there is Zhang Fei fighting with Cao Ren
with multiple enemy troops surrounding him.
Only one allied troop can be seen between these two
battles.
However what you don't see is the problem, Pang Tong
fighting alongside Zhang Fei is missing, he's just behind
Zhange Fei and along with the remaining allied troops.
Nor can Guan Yu see his own 4 bodyguards fighting
alongside him. Even though they're right next to him at the
front of the screen. But because they're at such a low
rendering priority they're not visible.
I haven't explained the order of Zhang Fei (player 2) but
he is not facing Cao Cao (player 2) and can see Pang
Tong because he isn't facing Cao Cao and his generals.
Therefore Pang Tong is drawn in favour of enemy
generals because no generals are on screen taking up
the rendering slots, but player 1 cannot Pang Tong
but can see Zhang Fei. What a complex mouthful.
So as you can see from this one frame example how
misleading some battles may be. If there was 30 enemy
soldiers on screen at time, you'd never see any allies.
Most of the time in heavy battle situations all you'll
see are enmy soldiers and no bosses, it'll be difficult
to fight them even though they are right next to you.
Even if you are stood with lots of your allied troops, you'll
rarely see them as all the enemies have drawing to the
screen priority.
Because of this order there are times when things don't seem to
make sense. For instance there can be times when you can see
the other player fighting what appears to be by themselves
in the distance because there are enemies that are being
drawn nearer to the screen on your window.
During a 2 player game the mini map is your best friend.
It reveals *ALL* units in whereas the main window shows
only most of it. Watch it wisely.
And also because this sequence happens 60 times a second
during furious bouts of combat with many units people
will be constantly disappearing all the time.
However, it gets worse gameplay wise. Not only do they
disappear, they're also impossible to hit. Not a problem
most of the time but if you're happily hitting away at an
army general and a large group of enemies appear from behind.
The general will disappear and any consecutive hits will
not hit. This means that during busy battles, it is very
difficult to aim for the enemy generals as they keep
vanishing, there is more emphasis on fighting regular enemies
first during a 2 player game.
The worst thing though in my opinion is running past units
to get to archers. You start hitting the archers and as
soon as the trailing army catches up, the archers disappear.
Very annoying, however it can also work in your favour too,
in the middle of being hit by a general they can often
vanish leaving you to recover and fight back.
Also when you're surrounding constantly, enemies will
only be drawn at the front of the screen, meaning that you
only need to be aware of enemies from one direction.
Basically meaning that you can't be surrounded, so you can
just keep swinging into the screen.
To be fair, Koei have tried to make this problem as fair
as possible, for instance, it's a blessing that enemies are
drawn first over allies. Imagine if you were always with 20
allies and enemies never got drawn?
That would be stupid, so Koei have done a lot of testing,
the 2 player mode is fraught with problems but I think that
this is probably the best they could do at the time. Although
I do feel that enemy generals should have been given a higher
drawing priority than enemies. But Dynasty Warriors 4 was
a lot better in this respect.
It is really difficult to know if you're fighting alongside
allied generals since they come practically bottom of the
list. The only way to know whether you're still near is to
look at the mini map. It should be noted that they are
still fighting, you just can't see them in action.
Saving Pang Tong on the Cheng Du is very difficult as you
often never see him, only the mini map can you know that he
is there.
So that's roughly what happens on a 2 player, I say roughly
because there are a few other factors affecting this rendering.
I know I said before that enemy generals should be rendered
before normal enemies but the reason they're not is because
enemy troops are faster to render because they have fewer
moves, details and polygons. So it's likely you could render
two normal troops over 1 general. Meaning that rendering for
each screen could be as low as 10.
Even generic type generals are rendered in favour of character
generals because they have fewer moves are graphics.
Don't worry too much about the in-depth complexities.
You can pretty much ignore all of this if you're playing Dynasty
Warriors 4 on a 2 player mode.
But of course I didn't program the game so I can only
speculate on to exactly what happens in the rendering department
But I believe 99% of this to be to be true because I've played
the game a hell of a lot and studied how everything works.
I just hope noone thinks I'm trying to reverse engineer the
game. :)
The rendering order explained earlier is tweaked slightly
on Extreme Legends to make a much fairer game.
However it's still impossible to try and find archers in large
groups of people as the people behind you chasing you make
them disappear. But bosses disappear less often, as do gate
captains. There's nothing more annoying than trying to kill
a gate captain but he keeps disappearing but as soon as you
kill more enemies more appear. Making it become a 'gate
captain in a respawn needle haystack' hunt.
There was nothing more annoying that getting a 7 hit combo on
a dead gate captain and then him suddenly disappearing so you
only got a +1 defence out of it. But luckily in Extreme
Legends anyone you are hitting does not disappear until they
have fallen to the floor. And Gate captains don't disappear
half as often.
Dynasty Warriors 4 uses an intelligent selective process on
which units to render. This is where similar clusters of
enemies are rendered in fewer numbers, meaning that a few
people disappear everywhere, but not entire groups.
On the whole this makes 2 player game just like playing the
1 player mode and is a much fairer system. You can often
have 4 or 5 bosses rendered at the same time on both screens!
Brilliant. Although this new system isn't without its
drawbacks. Double Musuo is appalling bad on Dynasty
Warriors 4 anyway, not only does it look so bad but because
many people right next to you will vanish, you'll barely
hit more than 5 enemies at all. Whereas before you could
hit up to 50 in one go. Because in the old system although
it drew all the closest people, at least it was people you
could always hit.
As soon as you run close to a crowd to do it, most vanish.