Call of Duty: World at War Walkthrough :
This walkthrough for Call of Duty: World at War [Playstation 3] has been posted at 30 Jun 2010 by :.AliceDaBabe.: and is called "Der Riese Guide". If walkthrough is usable don't forgot thumbs up :.AliceDaBabe.: and share this with your freinds. And most important we have 7 other walkthroughs for Call of Duty: World at War, read them all!
Walkthrough - Der Riese Guide
Zombies is srs bsns. Welcome to... ______ ______ _ _ | _ \ | ___ (_) | | | | | |___ _ __ | |_/ /_ ___ ___ ___| | | | | / _ \ '__| | /| |/ _ \/ __|/ _ \ | | |/ / __/ | | |\ \| | __/\__ \ __/_| |___/ \___|_| \_| \_|_|\___||___/\___(_) To quickly navigate to the section you want copy the code next to the section title in the contents below (ie '[PAP]' for the Mainframe & Pack-A-Punch section), press ctrl+F (or cmd+F for Mac) and paste it. Intro [INT] Weapons [WPN] -Tier List -Pack-A-Punch Effects -Things Worth Noting Perks [PRK] The Pack-A-Punch Machine & Teleporters [PAP] General Tips [TPS] Strategy [SGY] -Rounds 1-4 (getting points efficiently) -Rounds 5-11 (getting points efficiently and activating teleporters) -Rounds 12+ (surviving as long as possible, the catwalk strategy) -The Last Rounds (when all your teammates are down and you're out of ammo) Solo Strategy [SOS] Keeping Your Ammo Levels High [AMO] Story (in-depth explanation of the story and characters) [STR] Story Quick Overview (quick explanation of key points of the story) [SQO] Easter Eggs [ERE] -Theme Song -Hidden Recordings (radio locations) -Hidden Illuminati Messages -The Fly Trap (control panel and Samantha's toys locations) -A Few Interesting Things -The Red Liquid -Other Stuff You Can Interact With -Characters Models -Mystery Box Skin And Lighting Glitch Trophies/Achievements Guide [TAG] Everything Else (contact me, legal, updates etc) [EVE] ----------- Intro [INT] ----------- Yo, I'm gonna assume you've had a look around Der Riese already and basically know the layout, I'm also going to assume you've played Nazi Zombies before and get the general idea of it. Der Riese has some new innovations, it's got fully functioning teleporters, weapons are now upgradeable, it fleshes out the Zombies story and more. This guide contains some general tips to make it easier and explain some stuff that players new to the map may not know. I'm not going to list any glitches in this guide, so don't ask me for any. That all said, I hope this mini-guide is of help to some people, because Der Riese is awesome. ------------- Weapons [WPN] ------------- * Tier List (all just my opinion) This takes into account how useful the gun is throughout Der Riese and its Pack-A-Punch'd counterpart - I'd say it's not worth Pack-A-Punching anything below high tier usually. Anything God tier you should pick up straight away, if anyone else on the team already has the Wunderwaffe then the best combo you can get imo is a Ray Gun with either the MG42 or PPSh. Also Monkeys are awesome and incredibly useful, even if you have the two best weapons you can get you should keep spinning between rounds to try to get Monkeys. Awful tier are fine for the first several rounds, after that I'd say anything low tier is great from the beginning through to the mid-teen rounds and further if PAP'd. This is very rough and just to give a basic idea of what weapon you should grab out the box based on what you already have, you'll have your own preference for weapons and really that's what's important, you may be better with some weapons than I am and find them more useful, a good example of this is the Flamethrower, I hate it, it obscures your view and the view of others and earlier on I prefer other weapons to rack up points with a few shots + knife combo or headshots, others however find good use for it in solo and co-op play, so like I say this is just my preference: God Tier: Wunderwaffe DG-2 Ray Gun Monkeys High Tier: MG42 Browning M1919 PPSh-41 Mid Tier: STG-44 FG42 MP40 Thompson Type 100 M1891 Trench Gun Low Tier: BAR Double-Barreled Shotgun Double-Barreled Shotgun w/ Sawed-Grip PTRS-41 Gewher 43 M1A1 Carbine M1 Garand (with M7 Grenade Launcher) .357 Magnum Awful Tier: Panzerschrek Kar98k M2 Flamethrower M911A1 Molotovs * Pack-A-Punch Effects As a future reference many players abbreviate Pack-A-Punch to 'PAP' and I will do this at some points throughout this FAQ. Generally most PAP'd guns feature larger magazines, higher ammo capacity and deal more damage, that and they shoot prettier colours and have a cool new look. Here I will list the effects of PAP'ing each gun without going into much detail (people have listed stats on sites online, if you're interested try Googling to find them). Colt M1911 => C-3000 b1at-ch35 - Now shoots Grenades, holds double ammo. M2 Flamethrower => FIW Nitrogen cooled - Increased damage, takes about twice as long to overheat. Kar98k => Armageddon - Increased damage, increased magazine size, holds a little more ammo. Panzerschreck => Longinus - Increased damage, loads 3 shots at the same time now, holds double ammo. .357 Magnum => .357 Plus 1 K1L-u - Increased damage. M1 Garand (M7 Grenade Launcher) => M1000 (The Imploder) - increased damage, magazine holds a little more ammo and now loads 3 grenades at a time, can hold more grenade ammo. M1A1 Carbine => Widdershins RC-1 - Increased damage, now shoots full-auto, holds a couple more magazines worth of ammo. Gewehr 43 => G115 Compressor - Increased damage, magazine holds 2 more rounds, holds an extra 50 ammo. PTRS-41 => The Penetrator - Slightly bigger magazine, better bullet penetration (one bullet can travel through more zombies). Double-Barreled Shotgun => 24 Bore Long Range - Increased damage. Double-Barreled Shotgun w/ Sawed-Grip => The Snuff Box - Increased damage. BAR => The Widow Maker - Increased damage, magazine holds 1.5x more ammo, holds a little extra ammo, increased rate of fire. M1897 Trench Gun => Gut Shot - Increased damage, larger magazine, reloads twice as fast. Type 100 => 1001 Samurais - Increased damage, double magazine size, holds a bit more ammo, increased rate of fire. Thompson => Gibs-o-matic - Increased damage, double magazine size, holds 1.25x ammo, slightly increased rate of fire. MP40 => The Afterburner - Increased damage, double magazine size, slightly increased rate of fire. FG42 => 420 Impeller - Increased damage, double magazine size, holds a little over double ammo, slightly increased rate of fire. STG-44 => Spatz-447 + - Increased damage, double magazine size, holds almost double ammo, slightly increased rate of fire. PPSh-41 => The Reaper - Increased damage, magazine is pretty much double size, holds more than double ammo, increased rate of fire. Browning M1919 => B115 Accelerator - Increased damage, holds 1.5x more ammo, increased rate of fire. MG42 => Barracuda FU-A11 - Increased damage, holds 1.5x ammo, increased rate of fire. Ray Gun => Porter's X2 Ray Gun - Increased damage, double magazine size, holds almost double ammo. Wunderwaffe DG-2 => Wunderwaffe DG-3 JZ - Double magazine size, holds double ammo. * Things Worth Noting There is only one Wunderwaffe in the box in each game so whoever gets it is the only person who will have it, if they go down and are not revived though upon their death the Wunderwaffe will return to the mystery box. On the subject of the Wunderwaffe whoever has it must be careful, if they shoot the ground near another player that player will get damaged, if they do this twice you can even kill teammates. Some people choose the Browning over the MG42, to be honest I have no idea why, it has a slower rate of fire, worse recoil when burst firing and it has a slower reload speed, I'd go with the MG. Similarly I'd also choose the PPSh over the Browning, when PAP'd it has plenty enough ammo, it fires accurately when shooting in bursts or emptying a full mag and it reloads very quickly, it's a great weapon. The Bowie Knife I felt was not applicable to be put in the list, though it's worth noting that if you buy it and die you will still have it when you respawn. Also this knife kills in one hit until round 12, just remember that zombies can easily hit you when you're in close, so use the reach of the knife to slash them (don't go close then knife, the knife attack pulls your player forwards a few feet fast) and pull back on the left analog stick as it makes contact to avoid getting hit. The Bowie Knife kills zombie dogs in 2 hits, this is useful if your only guns have high splashback damage (like the Ray Gun or Wunderwaffe) and the dogs get close. Monkeys are new to Der Riese, throwing them will have zombies ignore players and run straight for it and wait by it until it explodes with the same explosive power as a grenade, very useful for finding time to revive downed players, turn on electric barriers or help players that may get overwhelmed. Bouncing Betties are useful for your camping spot later on in case you are reloading and some zombies get close to your position, just don't put them in front of you, if you are defending from the catwalk of the Teleporter C building I recommend placing your betties in the corner you can fall back into, otherwise they'll just go off in vain when one of the fast Linford Christie-like zombies gets close. When dog rounds start you can place them in the direction they come from to let the Bettie take care of them before they get to you as well, another good tip using Betties to take care of dogs (or zombies if you're in danger of getting crowded) is to go sit in a corner, move out of the corner a little and place one, that way you can fall back into that corner if zombies get too close or a dog round starts, put them in other corners zombies wouldn't usually go into (unless they're following you) too and if one gets taken out you can run behind the other Bettie and the next dog will run into it trying to get to you. Electric barriers are very useful later on. In earlier rounds these are not worth using as they will cost you 1,000 points to turn on and each zombie they kill gets you 0 points, so don't bother till late on or when you're in a pinch and need to revive someone. Later on these are fantastic for doing in a huge amount of zombies, saving you time, stress and ammunition, turn it on at the beginning of the round and again when it goes off and the red light on the switch goes back to green - use Monkeys to get close if you have to and have the Wunderwaffe guy cover whoever goes (making sure he/she doesn't shoot too close to his/her teammate as they can be damaged by it too). It is possible to get Stielhandgranate (grenades) from the mystery box, it's just incredibly rare. ----------- Perks [PRK] ----------- The power switch by the generator (next to where the box is originally) has to be switched on before you can purchase perks, just like in Verruckt. Juggernog (2,500) -With this perk your character can take a lot more damage before going down, worth getting this before any other perks. Speed Cola (3,000) -Very useful, makes you reload twice as fast, best to wait till you have a good gun after round 10 before investing in this in case you go down and have to buy it again. Double Tap Root Beer (2,000) -Although you'll lose ammo very fast this perk doubles your rate of fire, this will make you tear through zombies easy especially when defending the catwalk when you are funneling zombies, great for guns like the MG42, Browning and the PPSh. Best to get this after Juggernog and Speed Cola. Try to fire in bursts unless zombies are getting close because it's easy to run out of ammo quick with Double Tap and each wasted shot will become two wasted shots. Quick Revive (1,500) -You're able to revive downed team mates a hell of a lot faster with this perk, very useful in a jam especially if you can chuck a Monkey first to make time for your revived teammate to get to safety now he/she will have lost their Juggernog. If you get taken down then regardless of whether a teammate revives you or not you'll have lost all your perks, so it's best to get Juggernog first, but still it's not worth getting unless you have a decent weapon, if you can't defend yourself you'll just lose your perks again when you get taken down so focus on getting a good weapon first, then get Juggernog. The order you get the rest is up to you, personally I always get Juggernog first, then Speed Cola, then Double Tap, then Quick Revive. -------------------------------------------- The Pack-A-Punch Machine & Teleporters [PAP] -------------------------------------------- Linking the teleporters to the Mainframe takes some points and a little time but is easily done providing you can get a crawler or two left at the end of a round, you must turn the power on at the generator (next to the original mystery box position). All you have to do once you've paid your way through the doors to a room with a teleporter is walk into the teleporter and hold use (Square for PS3, X for 360, F for PC) when prompted, a 30 second countdown will begin, get to the starting area or get someone else to go there and hold down use when standing in the center of the platform (where you first spawn), the timer should disappear, now do this for the other two teleporters and you'll see the nearby Pack-A-Punch machine is now open for use at a cost of 5,000 points per use. Teleporters can be used from other parts of the map to get to the Mainframe very quickly at a cost of 1,500 points each time and any enemies too close when the teleporter is charging up for use will get electrocuted. Pack-A-Punching guns has a different effect for each weapon, for the specifics for each weapon refer to the Weapons [WPN] section. The general effect for the best weapons (ie the ones I listed in this guide as God Tier and High Tier) are increased magazine sizes, increased ammo you can carry and increased damage. To use the Pack-A-Punch machine just go right up to it, switch to the weapon you wish to upgrade then hold use (Square for PS3, X for 360, F for PC) when prompted, wait for a couple of seconds and when it comes out of the machine pick it up with the use button again. ------------------ General Tips [TPS] ------------------ Each bullet or blast from a grenade that hits an enemy without killing it gets you 10 points, a kill with a shot to the body is worth 50 points, a headshot kill is worth 100 points and a knife kill is worth 130 points, grenade kills are worth 50 per zombie, Wunderwaffe kills are worth 50 per zombies, kills by electric barriers get you 0 points and kills during Insta-kill get you 50 per zombie. There is only one Wunderwaffe available in each game. If the person that got it from the box dies it will be returned to the box. If you hit zombies (or anything close by) with the Wunderwaffe and you see that you have electrocuted yourself you will now be far more vulnerable than before, in fact you'll go down in one hit. Avoid this by not using your Wunderwaffe on nearby groups of zombies but if it does happen and you're in a multi-player game then I suggest between rounds if you have some crawlers you should grenade yourself and buy all the perks you need again after someone revives you. When you get the teddy bear from the box you can look to the sky and find a big beam of light shooting up from the new location of the box. Monkeys are useful for making some time to revive someone, get the electric barriers up, to get a Max Ammo or get a crawler, everyone should try to get Monkeys and use them sparingly unless there is a Max Ammo nearby. If you can then make sure everybody reloads before you get a Max Ammo. The electrical barriers are very useful later on for thinning out a wave of zombies, it's best to put it on at the beginning of the round and then again as soon as the light on the switch turns green, in the later rounds there's still going to be a huge amount of zombies coming from your side of the barrier so points won't be an issue. Try to keep at least one crawler at the end of a round when you want to spin on the box, get perks or Pack-A-Punch a weapon, in the catwalk strategy this is best done by throwing grenades or a Monkey through the window to near the power switch area as it ensures crawlers take a while to get to you if other zombies are still coming, it also makes it easier totell when the last few zombies are coming. A little after Round 15 expect to see zombie dogs spawn randomly each round. Use the teleporter excessively and it will start spawning dogs near the mainframe. As soon as you have a decent gun it's worth getting Juggernog. When the game starts STICK TO YOUR OWN WINDOW. It's amazing how many morons play this game and immediately in the first few rounds go from window to window to get kills, thieving them from other players covering the point of entry, most of these players are so crap that they thieve these kills with just body shot kills getting them a low amount of kills. There are 4 players and 4 windows, each player should stick to their point of entry until they start opening doors. Later on in the game you'll have many hundreds of kills so what does a few early on matter? If people are thieving your kills early on and you're the host I suggest you quit out so the game ends and direct some abuse at the player that was doing it. Avoid Insta-kill in early rounds and wait as long as you can before getting the Nuke unless there are too many zombies for you to handle or someone has gone down, the Nuke gets everyone 400 points and Insta-kill makes each kill worth only 50 points until it runs out so it's worth it to not bother with them in early rounds, though if you can get the Nuke when there's only a few zombies left you can make some extra points for everyone. Maximize points early on by utilising your weapons and knife as effectively as possible, in round 1 you can put 6 pistol rounds in a zombies leg then knife him, getting you (6x10)+130=190 per kill that way, then in round 2 put several shots in the chest then knife, then in round 3 put 10 shots in the chest and knife, then switch to headshots. It's usually round 12 that zombies start taking two hits from the Bowie Knife, it's still easy to get quick knife kills for the next several rounds if you hip fire a burst into their upper body before knifing. Dogs always go down in two Bowie Knife attacks as their health is always the same, if they get close this can be more useful than firing from the hip, especially if you're using a firearm with splashback damage. Don't spam the Wunderwaffe, even upgraded it doesn't have much ammo and remember other people need to rack up points as well early on in the game, not to mention it only gets you 50 points per kill. Don't use the Wunderwaffe on a group of zombies when you have crawlers you need anywhere near them. To reload some weapons (especially the Browning) slightly quicker when you initiate the reload as soon as you see the ammo is reloaded in the bottom right of the screen press the switch weapon button twice in quick succession, this will cut out the end of the reloading animation. When there are only a couple of zombies left killing one will make the other one go into a rage and he'll run at you a lot more aggressively, remember to try to get crawlers when there are still a few zombies left. If you have trouble hearing a teammate over the headsets try going to the game options and putting the VOIP (Voice Over Internet Protocol) volume up to full and reducing the game music and sound effect volume. Remember to keep your microphone volume and your TV volume at reasonable levels, otherwise players will hear delayed, awful quality sounds from your TV. If other players act like jerks online they aren't worth your time, just leave the game and join another straight away, these idiots will soon get bored, either that or you and a friend can block them in a room or turn on electric barriers as they are about to go through them and keep pressing the revive button on and off if you feel like acting as low as them, lol. -------------- Strategy [SGY] -------------- These are mostly little strategies that I find make the game easier that eventually comes down to the catwalk strategy. Strategies spread online memetically in this game for all the maps very quickly and still even now it seems the old idea of defending from the catwalk is the best way to go, so know that I didn't come up with the idea of defending from there, this is something you'll see online in most games. This guide is intended to help those that are new to Der Riese and looking to effectively stay alive and I've added a lot of tips on how to rack up points early on to make it much easier. Some people say there are better strategies than defending from the catwalk, if you want to look into those then ask at the message board, personally this is how I do the first 11 rounds followed by an in-depth look at the catwalk strategy and some extra tips to make it work as efficiently as possible. Co-operation is the key to this game, even though the game counts kills it is definitely not a competitive game, don't leave the team to go frag hunting and in later rounds don't leave the team at all unless it's between rounds and you have a crawler or two. * Rounds 1-4 Like all other maps you start off with the seemingly useless M1911 and your knife, there are 4 points of entry, assuming you are playing with three other people and they aren't kill thieving idiots then you have one window each. The best strategy for the first round is to put 8 pistol bullets in a zombies leg (specifically the legs) and then knife them, that nets you 80 points for the bullets you landed and a further 130 for the knife kill, totaling 210 points for each zombie. Let the zombies rip the boards down so you can get an extra 60 points too. If you let the last couple of zombies in and then kill them you may be lucky enough to score a Double-Points or the Nuke, which would net the whole team 400 points each. When knifing the knife has an extra little reach from when you push in R3 so push it a little before you get to them and pull back on the left analog stick to back away just as you slash them to avoid getting hit. For round two I would employ the same strategy but instead of shooting them in the leg put several shots in their chest then knife them, or if you prefer you could get the Gewher off the wall and put several shots in their chest with your pistol before getting a headshot with your Gewher, if you're out of pistol ammo then just aim for the head with the Gewher and 2 bullets should kill them, if their head comes off and they're still walking then knife them asap because shooting them again would get you only 50 points for the kill instead of 100. Don't bother scoping in with L1 when you're protecting your window with the Gewher, it's accurate enough to get easy headshots. Keep doing this till round 5, just rack up the headshots at your window. * Rounds 5-11 When round 5 comes have the person with the least amount of money open the first door (doesn't matter which way you wanna go), that should cost them 750, then someone else should open the next door, then someone else should open the stairs, now all of you can go through to the courtyard with the mystery box and power switch. Turn the power on and have the player with the highest amount open the big double doors for 1,250 points, now one or a couple of you can get the Bowie Knife off the wall for 3,000 points - this is an easy one shot kill for 130 points each zombie until round 11. The players without the knife can spin on the mystery box and act as a backup to those that will be utilizing the knife for large amounts of points - these people with the guns should only be going for headshots and not try to take the kills away from the guys with the Bowie Knives. Around round 5, 6 or 7 (maybe even 8) you can expect a dog round, these zombie hounds aren't too difficult, you should be at the power area by round 5 so with Gewhers (or better) and Bowie Knives they should be a piece of cake. As a future reference for later rounds don't be concerned about wasting ammo during dog rounds, there's a Max Ammo from the last dog every time, just make sure everyone reloads before anyone picks it up. Dogs can be expected around every 5 rounds from now until much later. From now on or a little later when anyone needs to spin on the box for a gun it's best to keep a crawler or in earlier rounds even just have one person run around with a slow zombie (ie not one of those zombies with the speed of Linford Christie and the endurance of Chris Ryan) following him while others spin on the box. After the dogs the guys with guns can camp in the Teleport Room C building (the one with the Bowie Knife) on the railing above inside (I'll refer to it as the catwalk), this is probably where you will spend the majority of the game, the guys with Bowie Knives (or one knife guy and a gunner) can stay by the power switch area covering the doors and one window, knifing zombies as they come that way, any zombies coming from inside the Teleporter Room C building or Quick Revive room will head towards the guys on the catwalk so for rounds 5-8 the knife guys shouldn't have a big problem with been overwhelmed (especially if they get themselves a decent machine gun as backup), if that happens though the guys in the building can jump out the side of the building and get to them quick, if necessary turning the electricity barrier on to get more time to revive them. Defending from the catwalk is simple, stay at the box spawn point and the enemies are forced to come in pretty much single file making them impossible to miss, funneling easy kills. Spinning on the box and/or going for perks is up to you from now on, personally I'd recommend getting Juggernog soon as you have a decent gun (Ray Gun, Wunderwaffe or any machine gun except the BAR), just leave it till the end of the round when you have thrown a grenade at some zombies to get a crawler or two to give you plenty of time to safely do what you want. Leave opening the doors to Teleporter Rooms A & B to the guys with the most points when you want to open up the Pack-A-Punch machine. * Rounds 12-? Round 11 is the last round where you can get one hit knife kills (though it's easy to spray a few machine gun rounds from the hip and slash for a quick and easy knife kill round 12-15ish, especially with a gun like the PPSh), the best thing to do from now on is go to the catwalk with all four players together, all at the back by the box spawn point, two players at the back standing side by side and two at the front kneeling down - it's annoying when people at the front don't kneel down because everyone behind can't shoot because there's an idiot in the way, a lot of people do this online and it's very frustrating. By now or as soon as possible you all want to get Monkeys, a Ray Gun and for one guy a Wunderwaffe, the rest an MG42 or Browning with all the perks, then Pack-A-Punch your weapons when you get chance to. The catwalk strategy is simple now, at the beginning of the round someone goes to turn the electric barrier on then runs back to the catwalk, everybody stays up there killing zombies, two standing at the back, two kneeling in front. Or, you can have one or two people shooting through the windows when the electric barrier goes off, then when the power light for the barrier goes back to green one player can run for the electric barrier while another covers him, if it has to be done to stop them going down someone could throw a Monkey, if they aren't going to get back in time this gives your Wunderwaffe guy (someone should've spun the Wunderwaffe by the time this strategy is necessary) a good excuse to get a lot of kills. Now when necessary it's time to get crawlers when it's getting to the last load of zombies, this is best done with a Monkey or grenades out through the window where the majority of zombies come from, this way if more zombies are coming at least the slower crawlers will take longer to get to you so you won't need to kill them if they get too close. Just make sure people stop shooting the zombies you want to take the legs off of and the Wunderwaffe guy doesn't electrocute them all when you need a crawler. * The Last Rounds When you're starting to get overwhelmed on the catwalk or if you manage to run out of ammo (which is hard to do if you don't follow the ammo tips, like keeping crawlers while spamming teleporters for Max Ammo drops and everyone co-ordinating their fire on the catwalk) it's time to spend all of those points you've racked up, which by now between all of you should be a hell of a lot. All of you should run into Teleporter and take out any few zombags making their way toward you, when a sizable crowd is coming for you one of you should time the activation of the teleporter to send you all to the Mainframe as they get close, this will teleport you to relative safety and some of them out. If you have chance you could wait and see what spawns, if it's a Bomb, an Insta-Kill or a Max Ammo you're in luck, Carpenter isn't really useful at this stage, if you get Carpenter or a dog you want to run straight to the Trench Gun room by Teleporter A, wait around the door and take out any small group of zombies, when a big group comes one of you should turn on the electric barrier by the door then run over to Teleporter A and wait in the Teleporter, like before take out any small group and time your teleport to take out a big group as they get close. Now you're at the Mainframe again and you should do the same as before, only this time head over to the Thompson room, so use the electric barrier when necessary and head upstairs to Teleporter B, from here it's rinse and repeat, keep spamming the electric barriers and teleporters, you could even ignore using Teleporter B and once the electric barrier by the Thompson room is close to going down you can go upstairs and take a left then jump off by the bridge to the generator area and get that electric barrier on, then run up to Teleporter C and use it when necessary. This strategy of spamming electric barriers and teleporters could potentially last you a long time, the points you racked up on the catwalk should last you a long time and zombies don't get any faster, just try not to get caught up getting close to a crowd for any reason, if you see a Max Ammo then go for it if one of you has a Monkey but otherwise it may be best to forget it, if one of you goes down it probably isn't a good idea to try and